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View Full Version : Why do vets not like a raw diet (or at least the few i have spoken with)



geckoutca
07-15-2009, 11:59 AM
Took chewy in to the vet to see about some scratching he has. They of course tell me it is one of three things, flea allergy, food allergy, or just common allergy... whooo cleared that up (LOL).... anyway, to find out about the food he asks what i feed...i tell him RAW!

he then goes off about how bad raw is for dogs and how we should not be feeding raw....disease from raw meat...allergies etc....wouldn't stop...

i asked why is it then that most all trainers and their clients etc all say raw is actually much better?

his response: who would you trust more? someone with years of schooling to help animals etc or a trainer?

at that point i decided not to press the issue...

then the other vet who normally sees chewy comes out and he says hi and says his coat and teeth look awesome!!! i asked if he looks overweight to him and he said he looks very healthy (i asked b/c chewy is 7 months and 48lbs!!!!)....

i found it funny that he mentioned the coat and teeth since everything i read out raw mentioned these two things as a couple benefits to the raw diet...

anyone else have these problems with vets and raw diets or do i just need to get another vet? (lol)

MaggieDog
07-15-2009, 02:04 PM
My pets all go to a great holistic practice. Our vet there highly recommends raw or homecooked, especially with the new "bases" that you can use from SoJos and Honest Kitchen. :) She does prefer a high quality kibble diet with toppers for pups, but once they hit adulthood she's happy to discuss all the options out there.

winddrover
07-15-2009, 03:41 PM
at least here the pet-food-industry sponsors the vet-unis BIG time.

all vets sort of suck it in with their mothers milk..

raw ist DANGEROUS.. :)
- malnutrition
- torn intestines (bones)
- agressive dogs
- bad coat :naughty:
- salmonella....

my vet/boss/friend thought so as well. by now she knows better, we do bloodwork on one of my dogs every know and then and they have EXCELLENT results. clean teeth, fresh breath, great coat, good weight.

she still feeds her dog kibble but admits that feeding raw is a good option.

Bluerules
07-15-2009, 04:22 PM
Thats is probably stir up some **** lol with the people who feed raw around here

My dogs do great on kibble. I have four dogs and not a whole lot of time and money.. to feed them all raw it would be like feeding four extra humans around here. and having to disinfect the floor all the time would suck .. where they would take their food to eat. im sure they would swallow a chicken leg whole FOR SURE the three younger ones don't know what chewing means at all. I bought a bunch of raw once at a dog show and it made their poop so extremely HARD and HUGE it was so hard and big it made Lilys pooper bleed :( I made sure I gave lots of fibre..
But if I just had one dog I would love to feed raw.. actualy I think I would cook it lol

competitivek9s
07-15-2009, 05:31 PM
Some vets don't like it, others are indifferent, and others love it. My one vet was very against it, I moved and changed vets, and this one has no complaints. He doesn't say it's wonderful, but he doesn't give an comments negatively either, and really loves the condition my dogs are in.

Jake&Tex
07-15-2009, 05:35 PM
My vet does not recommend raw due to concerns over cross-contamination.

Beth99
07-15-2009, 06:22 PM
I considered switching my dog's to a raw diet, but I cannot afford to feed raw. But, I do give them some raw food on occasion when I find something on sale. When I give them raw food I feed them outside so I don't have to worry about contamination in the house.

Darcy is fed a high quality kibble and my vet thinks his heart, lungs, coat, teeth and weight are awesome. He was really impressed with his condition last time he saw him. Also..... I don't think that a raw diet is the right thing for ALL dogs. I have an acquaintance who has a dog with serious allergy issues. She switched to a raw diet and it actually made her dog worse, so it's not the answer for everyone.

Personally, I don't think that just because a vet dislikes a raw diet makes him/her a bad vet or the fact they like a raw diet makes them a good vet. So I'm not sure that just because your vet dislikes a raw diet is necessarly a reason to change.

Linda Watkins
07-15-2009, 06:36 PM
Two vets at the practice I go to -- one is Rose's vet; the other is Shae's (both vets are about the same age) -- Rose's vet wants her on commercial high grade kibble w/ commercial supplements like Missing Link -- Shae's vet is very happy that I feed raw/home cooked -- what're ya gonna do??

I mix it up -- they get kibble/home made/raw/raw bones/leftovers....you name it. Along w/ fish oil, brewer's yeast, garlic & diatomaceous earth additives -- so far they all seem to be doing fine -- again -- so I don't think Rose's demodex was related to her food.

TexasCDLorenz
07-15-2009, 07:40 PM
My vet understands that the majority of his clients can't afford high quality kibble, but this is also a rural area where a lot of animals are raised for food, giving dogs access to raw. Also a lot of hunters, so lots of dogs eating whatever the human doesn't want. When I was a child (I'm 53) no one fed kibble. Our dogs actually lived as long or longer than they do today. The one thing I haven't figured out is the fact that we didn't give heartworm pills back then either, but that didn't seem to shorten the lives of the dogs. Now, I see dogs dying of hw at 4 or 5yrs- no vet has been able to explain that to me.

pjspatz
07-16-2009, 08:51 AM
I am always a little surprized when people discuss the cost of feeding raw. I have 3 dogs, 2 are on raw, and one has some issues and is on a high quality kibble for now untill I can turn her over to raw. It costs me WAY more to feed a high quality kiddle than raw! I can buy chicken backs and necks for .69 a pound. The kibble runs around $2.66 a pound, and I have to feed more kibble in volume than I do raw. I add veggies to the raw, but it is usualy what I have left over at home, or I grind and add frozen veggies, around a $1.00 a bag at the grocery, so very minimal.

As far as Veterinarians go............(I was pre vet in college and I now sell veterinary Pharms.) Yes, it is true that Vets make a fair amount of $$ from food companies to sell their product. I know, because I sell it to them! If the veterinarian is ethical, they are not going to PUSH a diet other than raw just to make a $1. They can make enough off of the majority of the population who feed kiddle anyway. I find that the longer a veterinarian has been out of vet school the less likely they are to thik raw is good. The newer graduates have been more exposed to the "New" idea of raw. I use quotes, because manufactured kidbble is really a newer way of feeding animals. Up untill about the 1950's or a bit later there was no such thing as store bought pet food, pets ate "people " food.

I can tell you that up untill very recently nutrition was a very short course in vet school. The more current graduates are a bit better informed and aware, but nutrition is a back burner type of topic. I wish a vet would give more thought to what they say when discussing the con's of raw. Contamination?? for the people possibly if you dont clean up properly, but not the dog. Their digestive system just works too fast for that. I also dont know of wolf packs or coyote dying of salmonella.they eat raw, out in the sun and heat, etc. etc. I do know of many dogs getting ill and dying from contaminated kibble! Intestinal tears? Show me the documentation. Yes dogs who have gotten into COOKED bones have issues. The process of adding heat to bone causes the bone to become brittle and splinter. It does not happen with a raw bone. I know of dogs pererating from processed rawhide and petstore bought "filled" marrow bones.

I can tell you that my raw fed dogs are sleek, shiney happy healthy dogs. Every person who pets my raw fed dogs comment about their coats, teeth etc. As a matter of fact my raw fed dogs coats would be to soft for the show ring! My 12 year old just had his first "dental" due to an abcess from a tooth her broke when he was 3, but he has never needed tarter removal!

Pam, and 2 out of 3 raw and happy dogs!

competitivek9s
07-16-2009, 09:32 AM
I too have to say the "safety" concerns of Raw VS Kibble tend to be overblown IMHO. There are dangers to both. I know personally. I had a 9 week old puppy die in front of me. Why? He chocked on a peice of kibble and it lodged in such away and so far back nothing I did could pop it out. Bloat is another concern, since kibble swells. The food recall recently, the salmonella issue in dog treats (wait, isn't salmonella an arguement AGAINST raw:s4:). Cross contamination? Well, ok, so don't ever buy raw food and cook it for yourself! There is no more risk to preparing Raw for your dog than cooking a chicken for you. In both cases, you need to be prepared to clean and disinfect.
Anyhow, I think in the end it should come down to what your dog does well on.

lucystrauss
07-16-2009, 09:46 AM
The vet I went to when I had my labs was completely against the raw diet. I always thought she was a great vet, but now that I think about it, she always pushed the food they sold at the clinic. My labs would always chunk up a bit in the winter (not as active and we all know about the lab appetite!) so the vet would always prescribe the lower cal food at the clinic, which according to a dog food analysis site is a 2 star food.

When we got Lucy, her breeder expressed her desire that we take Lu to a holistic vet. Turned out there was one a 5 minute drive from here and we love them! The two main vets in the clinic have been practicing for over 20 years but they have such modern ideas.

Unfortunately, raw didn't work out with Lucy. I'm tempted to try it again now that she likes chicken necks -- when she was younger she would barely touch the raw food - we tried several recipes - but now she's on a high quality grain-free kibble that she seems to like and I constantly get comments on how great my dog looks. :)

Ringtailroxy
07-16-2009, 11:49 PM
i am having this current argument ongoing with my favorite professor since last august. i have provided her books, publications, and peer reviewed articles about the benefits of RAW diets...she has provided me with publications & peer reviewed articles against it...

the 4 biggest argument have validity...if it is a addressing the 'average' veterinary client (not educated dog enthusiasts such as ourselves!)

1,) inappropriate balances of nutrients
2.) salmonella & other possible zoonotic bacteria
3.) risk of injury (have you ever had to remove an aortic arch off of a Siberian Hisky's tongue after it got lodged onto it, like a pig in a blanket? i have...)

i love all natural diets...i do like to use either Solid Gold Holistic or even Wellness kibble as a base. i never cook my dog's veggies...i usually steam them in the microwave or just run scalding water over them until they thaw.

rtr

Linda Watkins
07-17-2009, 12:26 AM
I am always a little surprized when people discuss the cost of feeding raw.

I can tell you that my raw fed dogs are sleek, shiney happy healthy dogs. Every person who pets my raw fed dogs comment about their coats, teeth etc. As a matter of fact my raw fed dogs coats would be to soft for the show ring! My 12 year old just had his first "dental" due to an abcess from a tooth her broke when he was 3, but he has never needed tarter removal!

Pam, and 2 out of 3 raw and happy dogs!


Amen!

winddrover
07-17-2009, 12:29 AM
Contamination?? for the people possibly if you dont clean up properly, but not the dog. Their digestive system just works too fast for that. I also dont know of wolf packs or coyote dying of salmonella.they eat raw, out in the sun and heat, etc. etc. I do know of many dogs getting ill and dying from contaminated kibble! Intestinal tears? Show me the documentation. Yes dogs who have gotten into COOKED bones have issues. The process of adding heat to bone causes the bone to become brittle and splinter. It does not happen with a raw bone. I know of dogs pererating from processed rawhide and petstore bought "filled" marrow bones.WOAH!!! i agree 100%. my comments about raw being 'dangerous' were ironic! sorry if this wasn't clear enough.

my dogs get raw chicken backs and necks for brekkie, first stomache (green) 3x a week, throat 2x a week, muscle once a week and on sunday a BIG FAT turkey neck. 2x a week greens, yoghurt and oil added. once in a while an egg and a bit of garlic. voilá..
taters from leftovers are loved (no pasta as cara can't stomache grain at all, so all have to suffer there).

over here i pay about the same for my dog's meat as i would pay for a high quality kibble. it's a bit more work to freeze it, but my dogs love it and thrive on it, so what...

pjspatz
07-17-2009, 08:27 AM
WOAH!!! i agree 100%. my comments about raw being 'dangerous' were ironic! sorry if this wasn't clear enough...

Windrover, that was just me having a fake retort with a veterinarian who would be against feeding raw, and what my responce would be, no worries, You were clear, and I agree!:)

Jan and John at Chevland
07-18-2009, 02:10 AM
I feed mine ALL raw and they do exceptionally well. I'm sure that, because of the pet food companies' sponsorship of Veterinary Associations there's no way they're going to teach their up and coming vets anything that resembles good sense (as in feeding raw). And the vets apparently make a pretty penny on the sales of dried dog food. Yukko - not for my babies!

geckoutca
07-18-2009, 10:13 PM
i find it interesting that there are also soooooo many types of raw diets out there as well!!! right now we feed chewy a variety of raw stuff with some kibble thrown in now and then. i buy ground up chicken backs/necks and mix that with some kibble. i buy ground beef when on sale and mix it with ground chicken breast for another meal. i buy natures variety pre made raw with veggies in it and serve that as well. i also give him a frozen beef rib at night to keep him occupied now and then. i always add fish oil to each meal and feed him an egg once or twice a week.

my friend feeds his german shep. nothing but beef....beef ribs, ground beef, beef tongue etc...but only beef due to allergies to chicken....no veggies etc...his dog is very very healthy as well!!!

at any rate, chewy's coat and teeth are doing awesome and there is always a gleam in his eyes!!! the vets commented on how great his coat and teeth were which i found funny :) chewy is very happy with his feeding and there doesn't appear to be any problems so i will continue with this type of feeding and mix in other things (like i recently started the yogurt in the KONG frozen with treats trick to keep him occupied ) as i go...

CattyBossDog
07-19-2009, 07:41 AM
Dogs dig up old rotting bones after being buried for 6 months and people talk about cross contamination from a raw diet?!

If food is not any good a dog's body is built to deal with it (specific poisons aside). No good and the dog throws it up almost immediately.



Vets always recommending food in a bag = vested interest.
If a free veterinarian recommended it then I might listen.

Belgrael
08-07-2009, 04:48 AM
That's awesome Diz!
I can get 24 Chicken carcasses from Lenards for $8.00.
I've just found chicken hearts at Lenards too and the boys absolutely love them...but then they love all offal (haven't tried tripe Bleh!)
Offal is a bit pricier than the bones but I can also get 1kg of ground chicken bones for $1.80 there. Love finding a bargain!
A butcher a couple of suburbs away sells mixed bags of bones (lamb, beef and pork) for $3.00 for about 2kg I think. They get a good variety from that.

k9blueheeler
08-07-2009, 11:48 PM
Speaking of raw diets. I went to a meat shop on Tuesday and got 5lbs. of Turkey necks for .98 cents a lb. They also sell chicken necks for .98 cents a lb. Their marrow bones are 1.49 a lb. I know they had chicken hearts but I can't remember how much they were a lb. I know that they were very inexpensive.

I can now afford to add some raw to all of my dog's diets instead of just Draco's. They also have good cuts of meat for humans with resonable prices. I definently miss the days of free marrow bones and chicken and turkey necks. That was a long time ago.

keedances
08-08-2009, 01:28 PM
The vets were taught by classes supported/run by dog food companies. The food the veterinarians sell.........all the people who work there either get a steep discount on it or it is free. The dog food industry is a billion dollar business. They do NOT want people to switch to raw food. They will do what ever they can to discredit feeding raw. That they say you need a phd just to be able to formulate your dogs diet is over the top. If we can feed ourselves and our children, we sure can feed our carrion eating canines.

If you really knew what went into the kibble, you would not have it in your home. Living in the country, I see first hand what is delivered to the companies. Four D animals AS WELL AS DEAD ANIMALS FROM THE VETS OFFICES. I was shocked to sell the truck parked at the vets office and the guy throwing the bagged dead animals in the back of the truck. I asked him and it ALL went to the same place.

The book, 'Food pets die for', will tell the whole story. It started with that aurthor having dogs that kept on getting sick. She finally figured out it was the kibble they were eating and the book is about what she learned about the dog food industry.

We, as humans, by eating so much processed food have comprimised our health. The more we eat fresh whole fruits and veggies and little meat, the better we will feel and healthier we would be and the same goes for our dogs but on a different diet, more meat and less cereal.

Variety is very, very important in order to cover all nutritional needs. I have had as much as 18 dogs at a time and all on raw. The formula I follow is 70% meat and 30% veggies, fruit and oatmeal.

IE, meat meals would be fish one day, chicken quarters two days, beefheart one day, tripe, liver , kidney and ground beef mix one day, turkey necks another day. Whole rabbit and whole small goat once a month. In the am they get oatmeal with fruit, veggies with supplements and kefir. I do not use chicken necks or backs.

Have been feeding raw since 1970s. Never got sick from handling the food and the end results are dogs who do not have dirty teeth, bad joints and who are in great health into their late teens. Their bodies are lean and strong and remain that way into old age. They DO NOT get allergies. Traveling is easy as I premake their food and freeze it.

The cost is WAY less then kibble. Due to dogs who do not get sick, do not need their teeth cleaned, do not get ear infections, etc. There are many wed sites for people to get together in their areas for bulk buying. I buy cases of food and have a chest freezer for sales. I found a privite label slaughter house that looks like a butcher shop that was dropped out in the country side. No smells, clean.......I get meat scraps, liver trimmings, heart and kidneys for 29 cents a pound. Also bones for the same price.

I found that puppies will eat the most and as they reach their growth, will slow way down. My ACD males get three cups of cooked oatmeal with the fruits, veggies etc. mixed in, in the am. At night they will get one turkey neck or one large chicken quarter or a half pound of other meats.

The Kees get a 1/2 to one cup of the oatmeal mix and smaller amounts of meat.

Many years ago my first foray into agiltily was with a 12 year old dog. She got her NA title with two firsts and a second. Winning over dogs half her age. I showed a bitch one month short of fourteen in vet sweeps and she took BoS over all the young dogs. She had the soundness and energy of a puppy. Her great, great, great, grandaughter was shown in vets obedience at a national and won with a 199 at the age of FIFTEEN. The judge thought she was seven years old, the minimum age to enter that class. This is ALL because they are on a healthy wholesome diet.


Carole

TexasCDLorenz
08-08-2009, 04:38 PM
What kind of fruits are good to add in the diet?
Also can you suggest a good temporary diet for a dog that has lost a lot of blood? My new foster was spayed & full-term puppies were taken out. My vet says she lost a lot of blood (he didn't do the surgery and didn't approve- it was done before I got her) She was starving & very weak before the surgery (she was abandoned) Would more liver be a good choice for her? My vet knows I feed "human food", so he advised me to give her "some extra nutrition" but didn't state exactly what. I've searched the B-Naturals newsletter, but can't find anything on restoring strenght after a large blood loss.

k9blueheeler
08-08-2009, 09:06 PM
I don't know what you could do for a temporary diet for a dog that has lost alot of blood. As for fruits, I feed my 3 bananas, strawberries, blueberries, apples, the melons that they like (watermelon, cantaloupe). Bananas and blueberries are their favorite.

littleroads
08-08-2009, 09:49 PM
I would think that liver would be good as it is rich in iron and would replace some of that lost in the bleeding. But, I'm not a vet/tech, so I hope you hear from others here (Roxy? Jenn?).

keedances
08-09-2009, 12:44 PM
Liver, and ground beef, all raw. I would also add b complex as well as a vit/miner. complex.

Liver in small amounts once a day. You do not want to over due or you will have running loose stools. About four oz a day and if they are able to handle that, then go to 6 oz a day. The marrow in bones is also very good for them. Take a sledge hammer and break up the marrow bones to get the marrow out. One tablespoon a day. Again watch for loose stools and back off it she starts. Do not over due as she is on the poor side.

Carole

Nomadofthehills
08-10-2009, 06:12 PM
I think the better question to ask is "Why would a supposedly competent vet recommend things like Science Diet?"

http://leerburg.com/feedingarawdiet.htm