View Full Version : UPDATES! - venom injection - Weird Growths (with pics) on Face

07-01-2009, 08:38 PM
EDIT: 8 July 2009

The vet called us with biopsy results. He had a venom injection of some kind, her words, but we don't know what caused it: spider, wasp, etc.

new picture:

Anyway, thank you for your help, advice, and prayers. I'm glad it wasn't anything serious such as an immune issue or disease. He's actually healing quite well.

Original Post Below:
This was posted in the welcome section (thank you!), but I figured I'd change the title of the post and put it here. When we find out what's going on, I'll update this post, Lord willing.

I joined this site because I wanted to share my experiences with my little fella because no vet I've been to can tell me what is going on. Background: he's 3.5 years, got him at a shelter because someone was getting rid of him, had him at the same house, same food, same people since late 2005. He's awesome, about 48 pounds, just a pure joy to be around, even tempered, playful, athletic (holy cow is he ever!), and a great dog, as I'm sure you all know. Now, unfortunately, let me tell you what's going on:

Here's a link to pictures:
http://pets.webshots.com/album/573263832pWRiEd (http://pets.webshots.com/album/573263832pWRiEd)

As I said earlier, I've been to two vet clinics and now have spoken with FOUR not THREE vets, and none have been able to shed light. I'm not trying to downplay the vets, please don't get that impression; I'm merely reinforcing that to let you know how weird this seems to the pros.

I'll summarize:
NO new food
NO new laundry detergent
NO new dog bed
NO new landscaping
NOTHING new, nothing at all

It popped up last Thursday, a week ago tomorrow. It hit us out of nowhere. Thursday afternoon my wife and I go on a date, Thursday evening we come home to...
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/21489...tDk?vhost=pets (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2148993950093931679ZGptDk?vhost=pets)
...so I think to give it a night, perhaps he got bit because his behavior was normal.
But it turned into...
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/21657...bjI?vhost=pets (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2165789930093931679OTnbjI?vhost=pets)
...in about 48-72 hours, I gave the vet the info but don't remember completely at this point in time.

The last pictures I took are dated June 30, they are...
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/27656...GMA?vhost=pets (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2765695730093931679kPqGMA?vhost=pets)
...and a bit fuzzy, I know, sorry :)

Well, that's a lot of information, but that's what I have. We're currently waiting for results from biopsy and skin scrape. He has pretty much stopped eating and moving and stays in his crate the whole time (he bleeds now, left quite a mark on the carpet, I'm crating out of precaution for the carpet and to keep him isolated for our 7-month old baby's sake).

If you think of anything, let me know :)

07-01-2009, 08:41 PM
I found this, don't know if it's any help:

http://www.nzymes.com/articles/dog_skin_hair_problems.htm#AUTOIMMUNEANDIMMUNEMEDI ATEDSKINDISEASES

07-01-2009, 08:56 PM
From my uneducated guess (okay I do work in a medically related field and am literally surrounded by doctors all day and my own boss had gotten pretty far on her way to vet school and has a farm...) it does appear to be something autoimmune, which can be treated in most cases. If you're near a vetrinary school you may want to see if you can get an appt. there especially if they have a dept that specializes in autoimmune diseases.

If you're NOT near a vet school I would suggest contacting the University of Pennsylvania vet college via phone or e-mail and see if they'll help you out that way or if they can reccommend a specialist in your area that could see you.

Best of luck to you and your sweet little guy.

07-01-2009, 08:57 PM
Poor thing!

I hope the tests turn up what's wrong and it's treatable.


07-01-2009, 09:15 PM
i don't like to double post, but i wrote a bit about autoimmune disorders on the original welcome post and hope the websites i linked to help you understand what might be going on...i would definitely seek out a referral to a veterinary dermatologist as soon as possible after the diagnostics come back-this is usually beyond the scope of the general practitioner...


07-01-2009, 09:27 PM
It looks suspicious of Lupus, but really it is hard to say! I hope the skin biopsies shed some light. We've treated a few Lupus dogs at the clinic I work at, it takes a bit of time, but it does seem to improve... Good luck...

07-01-2009, 10:12 PM
Poor guy!!!! I hope they can figure out what is wrong.

I am no expert either but from the research I did on the disease I don't think it is discoid lupus (it may be another form of lupus). Rusty has discoid lupus. You can see his thread here.


07-02-2009, 12:04 AM
Seems to me that I saw something very similar in a veterinary dermatology textbook years ago when i was shadowing a vet; of course the name is long gone. If this were my dog, we'd be getting a referral to a veterinary dermatologist ASAP.

07-02-2009, 04:11 AM
Oh my goodness Josh, your poor baby. I've never seen anything like that let alone something that has deteriorated so rapidly to such an extent.
Having no experience I have no advice that has not already been given but will keep everything crossed that a diagnosis and treatment plan can be found ASAP. What's his name??

07-02-2009, 07:27 AM
I found this, don't know if it's any help:

http://www.nzymes.com/articles/dog_skin_hair_problems.htm#AUTOIMMUNEANDIMMUNEMEDI ATEDSKINDISEASES

What a fantastic reference! Thank you :)

We've been contacting people left and right. I have not contacted a college, although the idea is a good one, because we are expecting to hear results from the biopsy and skin scrape soon. I just figured that because I couldn't find much stuff like this when I was using the magic "Google" maybe I should find and ACD site and share what we're seeing.

07-02-2009, 09:59 AM
Oh my GOSH poor guy! my only thought would be skin cancer horrible I know im sorry but that's the only thing I could think of and isn't it often treatable as well? Im sorry I have no experience with this at all. Sending good thoughts and hopes your way that this is treatable!

07-02-2009, 10:37 AM
this looks alot like a autoimmune problem a friend had with her Malamute mix. It was called Pemphigus. I see others already have directed you to Autoimmune website info. Good luck.

07-02-2009, 10:53 AM
Looks like the worst case of collie nose I have ever seen. Im not saying thats what it is but that is what collie nose looks like.

07-02-2009, 11:12 AM

Since it came up so quick- could it be a brown recluse spider bite? I've seen these bites many times (we have a lot of those nasty little spiders here)
Where are you? Texas A&M has a dermatology department.

07-02-2009, 11:18 AM
i had originally posted this under the Welcome! for oldSpice...thought i'd repost it here to match the topic.


i can't say i've seen anything quite like this before, and florida is ground zero for skin issues.

my 1st thought? Pemphigus Foliaceus. it's an auto-immune disorder. i have seen it once in a middle aged sheltie, but it did not look as severe as it does on this poor dog.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in...m/bc/60206.htm (http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/60206.htm)

http://www.provet.co.uk/health/disea...usvulgaris.htm (http://www.provet.co.uk/health/diseases/pemphigusvulgaris.htm)

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...foliaceus.html (http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_pemphigus_foliaceus.html)

another possibility is canine lupus, another auto-immune disorder...

http://www.lupus.org.uk/information/...ts_animals.htm (http://www.lupus.org.uk/information/information_informationforpatients_animals.htm)

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/autoimmn.html (http://www.canismajor.com/dog/autoimmn.html)

collies & collie mixes may be predisposed to Nasal Solar Dermatitis...

http://dogtime.com/definition/nasal-solar-dermatitis (http://dogtime.com/definition/nasal-solar-dermatitis)

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in...m/bc/72700.htm (http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/72700.htm)

http://www.drjwv.com/faq/?view=46&name=Pigment (http://www.drjwv.com/faq/?view=46&name=Pigment) (i know it's a shar pei website, but look at the pic on the bottom)

whatever it may be, i send bentleys & hope for a swift diagnosis & proper treatment of whatever condition your dog is suffering from.

please keep us posted.


07-02-2009, 11:21 AM
poor poor fella:no:

is it possible, that he has something stuck in his mouth or a tooth problem?
i saw this 2 times, while working in a pet clinic.
first case was bone stuck between teeth and dog was trying to take it out and scratched literally all his skin down his face.

and the second was similar, with a splintered piece of wood.

it looked exactly the same.

maybe it is worth to closely inspect his mouth.

wish that this horrible suffering ends and he can enjoy life again.

07-02-2009, 02:13 PM
We're in Central Florida, Volusia County

07-02-2009, 04:55 PM
you're not all too far from me, I'm in South Florida, Broward county


p.s. since you are in Florida, you should have no problem being referred to a veterinary dermatologist or even U of F...



07-08-2009, 09:55 PM
What does rtr mean? I looked it up, but one place had 40-something definitions :)

So, the dog had some kind of venom injection, but they don't know where it came from: wasp or spider or whatever.
Here's a pic of his face now:
Amazing, huh!
Well, the large growth is now a scab. His behavior is normal. He's eating, he's moving, he's, well, being himself, and that's great!

Thank you for your advice and prayers and support.

07-08-2009, 09:58 PM

I'm so relieved for both of you but WOW is about all I can say to this. :thumb_yello:

07-08-2009, 10:07 PM
Looked like a brown recluse bite to me.
Almost everyone I know has a nasty scar from one of those nasty spiders.
Glad your pup is feeling better:thumb_yello:

07-08-2009, 10:44 PM
OMG! I LOVE his look!! im so happy he's feeling better it much be such a relief!

07-08-2009, 11:00 PM
He's a handsome boy! Sure am glad he's feeling better.

Is Oldspice his name?


07-08-2009, 11:38 PM
I am so happy your dog is doing so much better! i was very afraid he would have an auto-immune disorder...those are no fun...

"rtr" is an abbreviation for my screenname, "ringtailroxy".


07-09-2009, 12:33 AM
Glad to hear it was nothing too serious. I know that some dogs have adverse reactions to bites and stings. I know of an Irish Water Spaniel that got stung by a bee last year in Handling Class and his whole face,nose and mouth swelled up. He was okay within a couple of days. The Vet gave him a shot(don't remember what) and it took care of the issue.
It definently doesn't take much if a dog is going to have an adverse reaction. One of my boys ate a bee and had no reaction at all. He was stung in the process too.

07-09-2009, 04:45 AM
Wow, what a relief! Would be nice to know what it was though, so you could hunt it down and make sure it doesn't bite again!
We would love to see some pics of your baby free of sores :thumb_yello:

07-09-2009, 04:47 AM
glad that the agony is over now:)

i like his coloring! he looks great:thumb_yello:

07-09-2009, 08:32 AM
What a big difference now! I'm glad to read that your pup is feeling better and he looks like he's ready to have some fun now.

Dang spiders.....grrrrrrr:furious:

07-09-2009, 06:15 PM
this is interesting. I took one of my cats to the vet today. I thought she got a rat and it bit her on the face. she has scabby things and bubbly bumps. the vet said something bit her like a spider or bug and she has a reaction...
what is going on with our animals

07-09-2009, 08:20 PM
We've always had a problem here with recluse spiders. I don't know if that is what bit the dog, but I've seen animals die as a result of multiple bites. Hard to believe that such a tiny little thing could cause such misery! Worse thing is they are in the house, hiding in our clothes, furniture- creepy!

07-09-2009, 10:25 PM
WHEW!!! Been offline for awhile and so glad to see the update and pics!!! He is sppp handsome and love his smile! Glad he is going to be OK!

07-09-2009, 10:40 PM

Much better photo! So very happy all is well!!!!