PDA

View Full Version : ACD vs LAB



Songbird
06-24-2009, 12:47 PM
Well, just when life is finally going smooth for us with our ACD rescue Ozzie, my stepdaughter breaks up with her boyfriend and guess who gets to "foster" her dog for the next 6 months! Annie is a 3 year-old 80 lb. black lab that never stops moving. Ozzie worships her, even when she body-slams him and steals his food and toys. They play like wild beasts for an hour straight, then Ozzie lays down and goes comotose for an hour - while the lab continues to frolic. His 38 lb. body looks so small next to her. She is so rough when she plays with him, but he keeps coming back for more. She takes a swim in our pool every 10 minutes, so she is constantly wet if we leave her outside. The backyard is flooded with her pool drippings. She is a sweet dog, but way out of control and seems to be only interested in playing and eating. She jumped on me when I got home from work yesterday and knocked me to the floor. I tried to play tug-o-war with her rope - and she pulled me face-down to the floor. The difference between a lab and a herding dog is amazing. She is constantly optimistic, loves everyone, and just wants to play, while he is way more serious and intelligent. It's like the jock vs. the intellect. During dinner, she continually drops tennis balls at our feet, while Ozzie sits quietly and repeats his repetoire of tricks over and over (shake, roll over, down, etc.). It is definitely giving Ozzie more exercise (which is good), but I have to make sure to separate them frequently so he can get one-on-one attention from us, and a little break from her constant play. She is also way noisier than Ozzie. When they wrestle together, she growls and roars, while he is totally silent. He always seems so worried, while she doesn't have a care in the world. I don't even think she misses her owner - as long as we play ball with her and give her food. I know if we left Ozzie with someone else, he would go into a panic and think we'd deserted him.
I apologize to all you lab-lovers, but I sure prefer my cattle dog boy! Oh - and also she "eats" his toys up in minutes, leaving no trace of the plastic toy or the stuffed toy. I've had to put up all the doggie toys because I don't want to block her intestines with non-digestable items. My stepdaughter also warned me that she even eats Kongs, so even those aren't safe. This will be a LONG 6 months!

Buela's Mom
06-24-2009, 01:03 PM
Sounds like boot camp style obedience training is in order at your house.

And no offense to lab lovers (I even have a lab chow X), but I've always considered labs a little dumb.

dingoridge
06-24-2009, 01:05 PM
The difference between a lab and a herding dog is amazing. She is constantly optimistic, loves everyone, and just wants to play, while he is way more serious and intelligent. It's like the jock vs. the intellect. .................He always seems so worried, while she doesn't have a care in the world. I don't even think she misses her owner - as long as we play ball with her and give her food. I know if we left Ozzie with someone else, he would go into a panic and think we'd deserted him.
I apologize to all you lab-lovers, but I sure prefer my cattle dog boy!

Yep, you have found the differences pretty quickly-------the labs I've known literally don't care who they are with as long as it's fun, they have food on time and something(one) to play with. Not so with a cattle dog. And the reason cattle dogs, unfortunately, do so poorly in shelters. They know what's going on, they know they have been abandoned, they understand the end of this game totally-------and it makes them less adoptable because they are so smart that they know the situation and they shut down. As a result the labs are at the front of the shelter kennel with their smile, take me take me, the poor cattle dog is devastated over what's happened to him.

Labs are for lab lovers, they are the black-haired ditzy blondes (JMO) of the dog world, the cattle dogs are the intellects-------I agree with you, give me a smart, thinking cattle dog any day!!!! Not wanting to get into a dog breed "fight" just stating my preferences and it's not labs. And hey, if I want to have paw prints on my only clean shirt at the shoulders and be pulled face down in the dirt--I have a cattle dog that can do that too--but he knows better (he's also sneaky and still tries the paw print tattoos).
J

lucystrauss
06-24-2009, 01:14 PM
Labs are actually smarter than ACDs, but I think they are a little more stubborn. People tend to think they are a great beginner dog (and temperament-wise, they are!) but if they have no (or very little) training, they end up being huge, energetic jerks! My first lab was like that and oh, so smart - he outsmarted us a lot in order to escape from the house and eat the bread in the park down the street!

They rank #7 on the intelligence of dogs, while ACDs rank #10. I think the ACD drive makes them so good at obedience.

We had 2 labs and one would be very sad when we went on vacation, but the other would just play and have fun at the dog sitters. I guess it depends on the dog.

Sounds like your "foster" just needs some steady training. I'm surprised she outplays your ACD - that's stamina!!

Good luck with them...I'm sure you'll have fun once a little time has passed and the rules are down pat!

competitivek9s
06-24-2009, 01:43 PM
Labs are actually smarter than ACDs, but I think they are a little more stubborn. People tend to think they are a great beginner dog (and temperament-wise, they are!) but if they have no (or very little) training, they end up being huge, energetic jerks! My first lab was like that and oh, so smart - he outsmarted us a lot in order to escape from the house and eat the bread in the park down the street!

They rank #7 on the intelligence of dogs, while ACDs rank #10. I think the ACD drive makes them so good at obedience.

We had 2 labs and one would be very sad when we went on vacation, but the other would just play and have fun at the dog sitters. I guess it depends on the dog.

Sounds like your "foster" just needs some steady training. I'm surprised she outplays your ACD - that's stamina!!

Good luck with them...I'm sure you'll have fun once a little time has passed and the rules are down pat!

Ironically enough, I rarely recommend Labs for a first time dog owner. I would recommend a golden first, as they tend to tone down faster than Labs.

And as for the intelligence thing, as much as I do have some respect for Stanley Coren, I have to say his intelligence scoring is bull you-know-what. It's like saying a kid that doesn't do well in school is dumb. We know now that that isn't neccissarily the case, as we all have different aptitudes and motivations. In fact, it is well known now that often times kids with very high IQs don't do well in schools simply due to boredom.
This relates to dogs in that it isn't the intelligence level you are rating, it is the MOTIVATION. I can teach most breeds a command in the same ammount of time, if I know what motivates it. The difference is in the motivation to perform a) during learning and b) after learning. A dog who won't continue to repeat something over and over isn't less smart than a dog who will, especially when that motivation is a persons praise. In fact, I taught Blitz some things far faster than a friend did her Golden, the difference is that her dog will perform it over with little reward. And the old, hide a treat and the faster the dog finds it the smarter it is is another example. Dogs who are more food motivated will likely find it faster, as well as dogs with higher problem solving. However, that doesn't mean they will learn a command faster, as they may think of other ways to do it, since they are good problem solvers.

lauralu
06-24-2009, 01:57 PM
I can relate...I was dogsitting my friends Basset/Beagle mix for the last 10 days. Nothing against either breed but this dog had the intelligence of a doorknob. She would go in and out the dog door then forget one minute later how and be pawing, scratching and barking to come in or go out. She would watch all my dogs go in and out, and just not get it, even though she used it a few minutes ago. Pebbles, my puppy, would even try to help her by pushing the flap door with her paw and still no luck. :fryingpan: The dog drove me nuts.

I love my smart (and smart a**) cowdogs!

dingoridge
06-24-2009, 01:59 PM
i agree, these "tests" for intelligence don't measure intelligence, they measure ability to repeat or perform an exercise at command. That's not basic intelligence, it's a measure of whether the dog will do the same boring exercise over and over for a treat, food or a toy or whether there is a reason (in the dog's mind) to do the exercise anyway. ACDs aren't good at boring exercises, mine look at me as if to say "why. we've already done that, let's move on", or they look like "why??". A food motivated lab will do it over and over and over and over and over----boring doesn't enter into it. ACDs aren't performers on command, generally, most of the herding breeds think because they were bred to think, they aren't side by side with their trainer, they are distances and sometimes out of sight distances away. So determining intelligence isn't done using the same exercises for all breeds--again my opinion but I see basic differences in breeds in teaching obedience. Nothing against labs, I have seen some good ones (excellent S&R dogs) and some that are dumbed out--it's just not the breed for me.
J

Songbird
06-24-2009, 02:13 PM
Another good example of the intelligence thing - when Ozzie fell in the pool, he almost drowned because he went into panic mode and kept trying to climb out the deep end rather than swimming to the steps. Annie (the lab), immediately figured out to swim to the shallow end and walk out the steps. I don't think it's that she's more intelligent, I just think that she doesn't go into panic-shut down mode like Ozzie does. Of course, she was also a rescue dog, so chances are she's had prior experience with swimming pools!
Ozzie is always on the alert - studying and watching everything. It's like his mind is always working on overtime. Annie basically just cares about playing and food. Ozzie is not at all food motivated, so we have to work harder to motivate him. And we still can't get him to fetch. He watches us play fetch with Annie - and he looks at us with a very disgusted look - as if to say "how redundant and boring is that - chasing after the same old ball".

TexasCDLorenz
06-24-2009, 02:26 PM
I've never owned a Lab, but the ones I know are very intelligent. But IMO- you can't compare the intelligence of dog breeds. They were bred for different things. The Labs I know, compete in field trials. I've never had a Heeler or a Rottie that would sit silent and wait for a command to retrieve a bird. I've also been beat many times in the obedience ring by Labs, but like ACDs, they don't seem to enjoy the obedience as much as being in the woods, hunting. But, they are very compliant when trained a lot- they seem to find fun in whatever they do. I think the winner of the obedience nationals this year was a Lab. They ARE extremely active- one of the few dogs I've seen wear out my Heelers, but these dogs are bred for spending all day out in bad weather, jumping into the water and bringing back the bird. The description of your ACD playing with the big black dog, reminded me of my Heelers playing with my old Rottie. :biggrin2:

dingoridge
06-24-2009, 02:59 PM
And we still can't get him to fetch. He watches us play fetch with Annie - and he looks at us with a very disgusted look - as if to say "how redundant and boring is that - chasing after the same old ball".

Exactly, mine would say, "I got the #[email protected]@#$ ball for you and brought it to you, now you've thrown it away again, you get it this time". :naughty:

Different strokes for different folks, that's why there are so many breeds.
J

Jake&Tex
06-24-2009, 03:44 PM
I have a Lab, and I wouldn't call Labs "dumb" - they too are smart, but just in a different way than ACD's. As far as teaching commands, I have been able to teach them both the same things and they both pick it up very quickly. Jake, my Lab, will continue to do it out of love and to make me happy. Whereas, Tex will take it one step further- you can see the wheels spinning in Tex's head thinking "And what is the purpose to this "roll over" business??..... I guess I'll just do it and get it over with"..... Or, Tex might try to think independently and adapt what he has learned, thinking that is what I actually wanted.

Now I will agree that Labs definitely do have a different outlook on life than an ACD. For Jake, life is about PLAY!!! For Tex, it is about work! Not a bad thing (on either end), just different! Jake is excited to see everyone, and will go with anyone (anyone see the movie "Up".... with the retriever who is wagging his body, saying "I just met you and I love you! I just met you and I love you!".???..... THAT'S Jake). I know that their over-exuberance can tend to annoy some people. Tex is much more thoughtful (even apprehensive, at times) about meeting new people and entering new situations.

I just LOVE observing the differences between the breeds and appreciating each one for who they are!

Songbird
06-24-2009, 04:06 PM
I'm thinking that this big over-exhuberant lab will probably start to grow on me. I just wish she wasn't always soaking wet so hugging her would be more pleasant! It's hard to resist a dog whose tail never stops wagging. Also, she is definitely an alpha female, so it's hard to watch my little ACD guy getting pushed around by her. He doesn't back down, but she overpowers him just by pure size. It has definitely taken some of the cockiness out of Ozzie - which might be a good thing.

autiger23
06-24-2009, 04:20 PM
But IMO- you can't compare the intelligence of dog breeds. They were bred for different things.

Exactly. Labs were bred to retrieve bird after bird after bird. When well-bred and well-trained, they are stalwart at getting that job done. But because they are such a popular breed, there end up being a lot of them not well-trained and not well-bred and with terrible owners, and you end up with the goofy ones or the ones that are puppies their whole lives. It's not that way just with Labs, either, of course.

Also, some of those 'intelligence' tests should be called 'trainability' or something else. They actually have some other tests where the dogs have to problem solve on their own and it's the Border Collies and ACDs and other herding breeds that tend to come out on top of those. I don't think it means they are smarter, I think it means they are doing what *they* are bred to do- think independently. You wouldn't want a hunting dog to decide on his own when it was best to retreive a bird.

I just get annoyed with a lot of folks around here with Labs because they seem to think that just because it's a Lab, they can let it go bounding up to other dogs since their dog is 'nice'. Bad dog manners is bad dog manners, but because Labs don't have a rep for being mean, the *owners* get away with more bad manners. Maybe that's just around here, but I think lovers of other breeds then get in the mindset of 'ugh, a Lab'. Not really the dog or breed's fault- just the fault of having a popular breed with too many bad or uneducated owners.

2speckledblue
06-24-2009, 04:51 PM
...I wouldn't call Labs "dumb" - they too are smart, but just in a different way than ACD's.

I just LOVE observing the differences between the breeds and appreciating each one for who they are!

Labs are fun dogs. I know a chocolate lab who is becoming a great disc dog. She is phemonenal with her jumps and vaults. She also has caught on to competing in dock dog. Since I like both those dog sports, I could see me with a lab if he/she was like her. Celebrate the differences for sure!

Linda Watkins
06-24-2009, 06:11 PM
I guess we need to remember that initially Labs were the dogs we most often saw performing as handicapped assistance dogs, drug dogs, SAR dogs, etc. And I know of one assistance training program that won't take herding breeds because it's too hard on them being kenneled during their training period -- I think you hit the nail on the head when you said they have different attitudes towards life.

Labs are an older breed; were bred to work closely with humans and to rely more on humans and try to please them; ACD breed is barely 100 years old, they were bred to be able to function w/out having the human right there telling them what to do, and many of the wild dog instincts have been preserved instead of bred out of them.

Comparing the intelligence of a Lab and an ACD is like comparing pie apples and bing cherries -- both soft fruits, but developed for two different functions.

(I prefer the pie apples ;-) -- a little tart & they make your taste buds sit up & pay attention!

dingoridge
06-24-2009, 07:29 PM
Comparing the intelligence of a Lab and an ACD is like comparing pie apples and bing cherries -- both soft fruits, but developed for two different functions.


Yep, ---the evaluations for "intelligence" can't be based the same, they aren't bred for the same thing, they aren't comparable for the same jobs, don't have the same attitude, etc. Doesn't mean they can't mesh across some of the same disciplines--SAR, Drug dogs, etc.--but comparing basic intelligence on a similar "performance" scale doesn't compute.
J

RickAKAFishslayer
06-24-2009, 08:48 PM
I'm rollin' over here!:roll1:

I love Labs myself & a friend has a chocolate that's smart as a whip. She (the Lab) is the second most ball obsessed dog I've ever seen and will solve a maze of fences & gates pretty quick to get that ball & bring it back.

Glad to hear that Dingo isn't the only "But we just DID that!" type around. He also doesn't much care for over & over routines.

I saw that intelligence ranking & thought it was pretty much BS for most of the reasons already outlined. I tell people all the time that ACDs are like the super smart kid in school. If you don't give them something to do they'll get bored & FIND something to do. And it can get ugly! :eek:

Rick:paw:

k9blueheeler
06-25-2009, 12:13 AM
My niece has a Chocolate Lab and his whole life won't play with my ACD or my parents Greyhound/German Shepherd dog together in a pack of three. My dog and my parent's dog made alot of noise when they were playing. He would play with them one on one.

He was actually a very laid back field lab that had a bad habit of wondering down to the school grounds and played with the children. I do prefer my ACD's to Labs but I like the breed. I just wouldn't want to live with one.

Songbird
06-25-2009, 11:39 AM
Ozzie is getting tired of Annie's constant rough-housing and play. Yesterday evening she wouldn't leave him alone, so he leaped up on top of the 6' back fence just to get away from her. We had never actually caught him in the act of jumping the fence. We assumed he was "climbing" his way out. He reaches the top in one leap. He just stood on top of the fence looking down at her with a "ha - you can't get me now!" attitude. Now I'm panicked again about the fence issue. Before he would only jump out the front fences - and only when we weren't home. We installed the coyote rollers on the front fences and the problem was solved. Now I'm worried he'll jump into someone else's yard. It looks like more coyote rollers are needed. I'm letting him in the house without her more and more so he can get a break. I've even been letting him sleep with me every night in the spare bedroom.

Linda Watkins
06-25-2009, 12:22 PM
Sounds like Annie needs some basic training boot camp & to learn to leave it once in awhile. Definitely set things up so Ozzie can have some outdoors time as well as indoors time w/out Annie harassing him -- at three years old even a lab shouldn't be allowed to be quite that obnoxious.

& yeah -- sounds like you need to do something about the fence -- and maybe get Ozzie into agility? -- LOL.

littleroads
06-25-2009, 12:38 PM
Start with NILIF, and perhaps a crate for Annie. They both need some down-time! :)

heeler400
06-26-2009, 05:46 AM
I once own a true working bred ACD. Smartest dog ever, her ability to think laterally and independently would beat most labs hands down! Fiercely loyal, cool headed and extremely active. She could handle the most difficult cattle and could work all day and more. Day in and day out. In fact she was obsessed with working! I could never wear her out, quick dip a in a cattle trough and ready to go again.

She was the dog I would want by my side in a life and death situation and she would protect me with her life.

I think it is unrealistic to compare intelligence of dogs bred for different jobs!

lucystrauss
06-26-2009, 09:06 AM
The intelligence of dogs ranking is really not the same "intelligence" that we'd apply to humans. It's based on a sample of dogs and reflects on how many repetitions it takes for them to learn something. Of course it's not 100% accurate - it's just a study (like how you'll hear "a study at ___ University suggests that ____ may be linked to heart disease") but it gives a rundown of what you may expect with different breeds. Of course it also depends on the individual dog (out of my 2 labs, one was genius and the other was sooo sweet but of average 'intelligence') and training is much easier if a dog is food/toy motivated.

My lab Bailey was sooo smart. At the cottage, we have 2 docks about 100 feet apart. Whenever someone threw the kong in the water, you could see him calculating which dock was closer to the kong, thus which way would be the least swimming/fastest way to the kong. Jade, on the other hand, would jump in wherever she was and swim diagonally to the kong, usually losing out to Bailey who would "cheat" and run across the shore to one of the docks!!

There are a series of tests that can be done to determine your dog's "intelligence". Someone mentioned something about it - tests include hiding food, etc.... I tried it with Lucy when she was quite young and she didn't do the best with the food tests (we had a hard time getting her to eat when she was a pup) but I re-did the food tests using a ball and she got a genius score. So what I'm trying to say is, you have to meet the needs of the specific dog to get a true idea of what's in that noggin of theirs. :naughty:

competitivek9s
06-26-2009, 11:27 AM
That was me Lucy :) There are a bunch of different "tests" and your expeerience with Lucy illustrates my point: Most of the tests are inaccurate because of one key element of animal (and this includeds human) behavior: the requirement of MOTIVATION. And in tests like these, they tend to only use one thing, which can really affect the results :)

RickAKAFishslayer
06-26-2009, 12:20 PM
That was me Lucy :) Most of the tests are inaccurate because of one key element of animal (and this includeds human) behavior: the requirement of MOTIVATION. And in tests like these, they tend to only use one thing, which can really affect the results :)

Dingo's that way.

Treats? "Yeah...OK...whatever."

Wanna chase the disc? "WOOHOO! YEAH BABY! WATCHA WANT ME TO DO?"

Rick:paw:

Tanya
06-26-2009, 06:09 PM
OMG what a great thread :)
I am a lab person, considering my second dog and deciding between another lab or an ACD! LOL

VERY VERY different dogs (from my limited experience - which is fostering an ACD). Training is different as well. But I agree with those who suggested NILF. Alot of labs need it for at least a period to teach them the human is boss, otherwise they try to get away with EVERYTHING!

This thread will be helpful and I will read it again, I am having a hard time deciding (I know it seems silly to be undecided between two breeds that are so vastly different but I am!)

TexasCDLorenz
06-26-2009, 06:26 PM
OMG what a great thread :)
I am having a hard time deciding (I know it seems silly to be undecided between two breeds that are so vastly different but I am!)

Not silly at all! I love Rottweilers and Heelers. I've owned both breeds (more Rotts than Heelers) Totally different- HA
At present, I have 2 young Cattledogs. I lost a Rottie in April. There are SO many homeless ACDs in Texas, but I want another Rottie! So, my next dog will be a Rottweiler, but I will continue to foster ACDs. I think it is fun to have such different personalities! We compete in obedience and it is like jetlag- going from training one to the other.:biggrin2:

littleroads
06-26-2009, 06:43 PM
There are a couple of folks with "cattlelabs" on this list. You could try one of those and have the best of both worlds. :biggrin2:

Jake&Tex
06-26-2009, 06:45 PM
There are a couple of folks with "cattlelabs" on this list. You could try one of those and have the best of both worlds. :biggrin2:

..... or the worst! :naughty:

KAKZooKpr
06-26-2009, 06:48 PM
..... or the worst! :naughty:

Don't scare her away! :naughty: Maybe one of the pups that Mary is fostering will catch her eye!

Kristina

GaryH
06-27-2009, 10:06 AM
Hello:

First, let me introduce myself. My name is Gary Harkins and I was recently invited to join this forum. I'm sure I will get much information on my quest to make sure an ACD is the "right" next dog for me.

In that vein, I find the original post in this thread very interesting!!! In the few cases where someone would attempt to steer me away from an ACD, they always cited the reason being "ACD's are too hyper-active!!!" Now I read a thread that, at least in the case of these two dogs, seems to be just the opposite. I suppose, just like anything else, you can end up with a hyper Lab and a more passive ACD and vice-versa. I currently own an older Lab that, at 11+ years old, still wants to swim constantly. In fact he currently has his head laying on my leg as I type and he's saying "let's go swimming!" So I'll close and take him swimming!!!

Gary

PS I'll probably do more lurking than posting, but I found this thread interesting!

dingoridge
06-27-2009, 10:28 AM
I think "hyper" to describe a cattle dog resides in both the dog and the people who catergorize the dogs as hyper. Yes, definitely cattle dogs have a great deal of energy, that's a given, but I've had a lab, have friends with labs, have had labs in obedience and to me, there is a difference in "hyper" in discussions with both breeds. Perhaps training has a lot to do with my comparisons with both breeds but I prefer "hyper" in cattle dogs to the hyper in labs (much prefer it in fact--I'd use hyper more to express activity in labs than cattle dogs, although I have one that could go toe to toe with any lab). Cattle dogs are energetic but with a purpose--they are focused, determined, oriented to a task, etc. rather than just exurberant or "all over you hyper". Now without a task--game playing, focused attention, a job, training, etc.-- cattle dogs can be destructive because they have energy with focus--whereas the exurberant dog breeds are all over you just because the sun came up, etc. :-))). I've known cattle dogs to make doors in wall board where there wasn't a door (from a utility room into the adjacent bathroom), rearrange the furniture, make carvings on furniture that weren't intended to be there, etc. but I've also know cattle dogs to get the zoomies in the house and turn over nothing--so breeds have their explosions of energy in different ways. Frankly, cattle dogs energies are more easily directed than some other breeds--at least that's my personal opinion, they can direct their energy into games, training, obedience, etc. and they usually aren't the breed to greet visitors with paws on the shoulders and pushing visitors on their backs on the front porch. But cattle dogs are leary of strangers, so you will have a cattle dog that has to decide whether that stranger even belongs in the house in the first place and then cautiously stands by their master assessing the situation. Just strokes for different folks, both have energy to burn just a totally different manifestation of how it's displayed. And there is definitely a difference in acceptance of strangers with the breeds, cattle dogs aren't the "I love everybody and want to lick your face off" but are a loyal dog to their owners, I prefer a dog that is mine and wouldn't get in the first car that stopped and opened their door--again a total personal preference.

So, energetic????? yep, it's just a matter of focus and direction of that energy. And welcome, Gary, to this forum, hope you learn a lot, get information that will help you decide what you want and where to find it, and enjoy the ACD breed--they are definitely different from labs--not "less than" just "different from".
J

Brunella
06-27-2009, 10:31 AM
I just like ACDs better. That's all. I kinda like them better than anything...including people most of the time :naughty:.

Labs are okay, I'm just not a fan. To each their own but any dog that loves you and that you love is the perfect dog.

RickAKAFishslayer
06-27-2009, 11:18 AM
I think "hyper" to describe a cattle dog resides in both the dog and the people who catergorize the dogs as hyper.
J

hehe... one person's "hyper" is another's "business as usual."

My son adopted a chi/JRT mix & he think he is hyper. I see him as a lovey dovey high energy sweetheart. With that mix I can tell ya he could be MUCH worse!:naughty:

Rick:paw:

dingoridge
06-27-2009, 11:50 AM
Oh yes!!! Ever been to Jack Russell races----they are like ants, going everywhere at the same time and katy bar the door if you happen to be in the way at the end of the race! Been a catcher at Jack Russell races, need fast hands, gloves with some dogs since they are super enthused and don't separate your hand from the "prey" and when you grab one, get outta the way, there are 30 more coming at you fast and furious! There are pileups that defy gravity, somersaulting dogs that hardly hit the ground before those legs are pumping-----and they are terrirers--fighty little fellows. Lordy, pandemonium -- now that's hyper :-))).
J

TexasCDLorenz
06-27-2009, 01:32 PM
Oh yes!!! Ever been to Jack Russell races----they are like ants .
J
Yeah- FIRE ANTS! HA:roll1:
There is a video of a Jack Russel on YouTube of a JRT doing Schutzhund:s4:
Steph posted the link once- if someone can- please post it again- its hilarious!

KAKZooKpr
06-27-2009, 06:15 PM
There is a video of a Jack Russel on YouTube of a JRT doing Schutzhund:s4:

Lord, that is truly frightening!! :roll1: That dog could climb you like a monkey & bite you all over! :naughty:

Kristina

Nomadofthehills
06-27-2009, 07:30 PM
Another good example of the intelligence thing - when Ozzie fell in the pool, he almost drowned because he went into panic mode and kept trying to climb out the deep end rather than swimming to the steps. Annie (the lab), immediately figured out to swim to the shallow end and walk out the steps. I don't think it's that she's more intelligent, I just think that she doesn't go into panic-shut down mode like Ozzie does. Of course, she was also a rescue dog, so chances are she's had prior experience with swimming pools!

Bingo. It is extremely important to physically show a dog how to get out of a pool. The lab didn't just figure it out, he knew what a pool was, and how to get out.

Songbird
06-29-2009, 10:50 AM
Annie is settling in pretty well now. She is in the swimming pool more than she is in the house. She is pool obsessive. Her tail never stops wagging. Ozzie gets breaks from her when we let him in the house and leave the dripping wet lab outside. She loves everyone she meets, which is nice (compared to Ozzie who is very suspicious of strangers) - but I still prefer the dog who puts me on a pedestal above other humans. Annie could go live with anyone and adapt quickly, but for Ozzie it would be traumatic. We let her join us on our river hike for the first time this weekend. She did extremely well on the leash for my hubby. We let her off leash at the river and she spent her time swimming out to fetch a stick over and over in the river - while Ozzie roamed around the bank looking for things to "herd" (squirrels, rabbits, lizards, birds, ducks, etc.) Annie's recall was good, but we were warned that she doesn't always come when called if other people are around - since she is more interested in meeting them. We actually got to witness Ozzie leaping to the top of our 6 1/2 foot fence - in one flying leap he was on the top and walking along the fence. There was a neighbor cat on the fence that needed to go back to its own territory. Luckily Ozzie jumped right back down into his own yard. The coyote rollers are working great on the front sides of the yard (keeping him away from the street). It's just so amazing to see a 40 lb. dog make a 6 1/2 foot leap. Annie the Lab doesn't seem at all interested in jumping. She is more interested in swimming and digging holes all over our back yard. I do think that having a playmate has been good for Ozzie. AND I finally saw him stand up to her. She finished her bowl of food first and went to gobble down his (as usual), but this time he growled and snapped at her and she backed off. Way to go Ozzie!

pmartine
06-29-2009, 04:29 PM
Just out of curiosity, how does one teach a dog to swim?

Jake&Tex
06-29-2009, 04:40 PM
Jake, my Lab, was scared of water when we first got him from the pound. All it took was one time of him being brave enough to jump in the water after a tennis ball and then paddling for dear life for him to figure it out.... and haven't been able to keep him out of the water since!

We took Tex swimming as a puppy (after Jake was already loving the water) - Tex basically followed whatever Jake did.

lauralu
06-29-2009, 04:41 PM
Just out of curiosity, how does one teach a dog to swim?

Dogs already know how to swim...they just don't know they know sometimes and need to be encouraged. The best way is to have them watch other dogs do it. Some of my dogs swam from the time they were just a few months old and others woudn't brave it until there were 2 or older. Just keep it positive and don't force them! If a dog has a bad experience he or she may not ever want to try again.

Jake&Tex
06-29-2009, 04:50 PM
Dogs already know how to swim...they just don't know they know sometimes and need to be encouraged. The best way is to have them watch other dogs do it. Some of my dogs swam from the time they were just a few months old and others woudn't brave it until there were 2 or older. Just keep it positive and don't force them! If a dog has a bad experience he or she may not ever want to try again.

So true!

I took Jake to a Dock Diving event last year..... he was a little timid at first (to them, jumping into a pool of clear water is a lot different than jumping into beach or lake water). But with a little positive encouragement, he went right in. And wanted to go again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again....... gotta love those Labs! :biggrin2:

It was sad to see some people who tried to push their dog over the edge into the pool, and had to be told by event workers not to do that.

lauralu
06-29-2009, 05:08 PM
(to them, jumping into a pool of clear water is a lot different than jumping into beach or lake water).

This is a great point too! My old coonhound would not go near the ocean (did not like the waves) or a pool (or the clear water) but would swim forever in a lake! I just assumed he hated water because I had only taken him to a beach or pool. We were camping at Powell Lake in Utah and he was already about 7 years old, and imagine my surprise when he launched off the boat...!!!!

TexasCDLorenz
06-29-2009, 10:09 PM
Maybe your old Coonhound didn't like the taste of the salt water or the pool water? I've had a lot of dogs that loved the lake, jump into a pool and try to drink- YUCK! Same thing with the ocean- took them a while to figure out that just because you can swim in it, doesn't mean it's good for drinking:s4:
As far as I know, dogs are natural swimmers, never had to teach one.

lauralu
06-29-2009, 10:14 PM
Maybe your old Coonhound didn't like the taste of the salt water or the pool water? I've had a lot of dogs that loved the lake, jump into a pool and try to drink- YUCK! Same thing with the ocean- took them a while to figure out that just because you can swim in it, doesn't mean it's good for drinking:s4:
As far as I know, dogs are natural swimmers, never had to teach one.

You may be right Cindy, but I know he had a bad experience in the ocean when he was a puppy. He ran into the ocean to follow his Surfing Dad and he got tumbled like he was in a washing machine. It took me years to get him to just put his paws in the ocean after that.