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2speckledblue
06-08-2009, 09:28 PM
Tonight, I broke up a fight between Roo, my 2 year old neutered male, and Dublin, my foster 3-4 year old neutered male. They have been okay through my management for a month. But I wasn't paying attention and Dublin got under the table while I was on the computer. Roo came in and took exception to Dublin being there. Roo growled, Dublin came after him but I interrupted the fight by holding Dublin against the file cabinet while my son came running to get Roo. Both were still growling at each other but stopped as they were being taken to their crates.

Roo has been a taker of toys since he was a puppy. He also tried to keep Dusty from getting on the bed at one point. He got corrected for that and always allows her on the bed now. Dusty lets him take toys away that she has. However, she also brings toys close to Roo to entice him to play the "take away" game.

I have been in between both dogs in three of incidents of fighting. I think Roo wanted to be where Dublin was maybe because it was a cozier place to lie or to be by me. One time, the fight started out in the yard and I think they were fighting over a stick. They can sit next to each other to receive treats and it's always in the same order so each dog knows he/she will always get a treat (it's fair). They used to be able to play together. Dusty and Dublin have never fought. Dusty only plays with Roo at home but sometimes plays with other dogs at doggie day care

So how do I handle this. Dublin is a great dog but doesn't like all dogs and, as it seems, especially not other males. I don't think he is a liability to people but can't go to a home with a male dog. Or perhaps, he will defend his resource whatever he perceives that to be from any other dog, even a female. He has never shown any food agression. Roo has actually stolen Dublin's treat before. Dublin just looked puzzled and waited until I got him another treat. All dogs are fed in different places in the kitchen, no dog is allowed to go to where another dog's dish is and they are always supervised. Since the last fight incident, Dublin goes around the corner in the kitchen to lay on the floor rather than a comfy dog bed in order to not be in Roo's line of sight. Dublin made that choice on his own. He has moved to other locations too when Roo has been in the same area. It seems to me he is trying not to cause trouble. At night, Dublin turns his back to Roo while he sleeps in his crate. I don't know what his doggie brain is really thinking though. I don't allow them to be loose outside at the same time now at all. Dusty and Dublin can be outside together but seldom do I do this. Dublin has been in the kennel run and Roo has play bowed to him. No growling then.

How do I handle Roo? If he causes trouble with one foster, perhaps I should not foster after Dublin. I have asked how Roo's behavior is at doggie day care. He absolutely has no problem with other dogs there. He has been fine with other dogs at agility shows, herding and disc dog competitions. So what causes his nasty behavior at home? Is there a training method to overcome this? I am reading the Culture Clash but need suggestions to try now. Or if you've read it, point the page out that I need to read to help me understand. I probably need to read Mine by the same author. So if you know anything from that book to help me, please let me know.

lauralu
06-08-2009, 09:53 PM
Dog vs Dog resource guarding is nearly impossible to cure and really you can only manage it.

Those books will help dog vs people resource guarding...which can be cured.

Rusty will let my 3 year old nephew take a biscuit out of his mouth, but another dog goes near his food bowl and forget it! Rusty is fed in the dining room while my other 4 dogs can all eat in my TINY kitchen with no problems.

Rusty will gather any new toys pile them up and sit on them so none of the other dogs can play with them.

I talked to my trainer about Rusty's issues and he told me that it is very natural for a dog to resource guard w/ other dogs. Why is it hard to train out??? Because you would have to have another dog "trade up" (trade the toy / treat for something better) consistently. Maybe someone else has some ideas that work...but in all my research and brain picking to all the trainers and behaviorists I have met I have not found anything that works on dog vs dog guarding other than management. At the shelter, all dogs kenneled together are fed separately no matter what. Dogs kenneled together get no toys in their kennel no matter what and no treats no matter what.

I can tell you by my management Rusty has gotten so much better over the years and is learning to share a bit...but I will always feed him seperatley.

My theory: Rusty was a puppy from a litter of 11...and he was the biggest pup...! He learned at an early age that he had to push others out of the way to survive and he still thinks he has to do that. I have talked to other people that have pups from big litters and they do the same.

Maybe you should not foster males after Dublin. I know that I have 3 boys here, they all get along, but I only foster females because I know after a few weeks one of my boys will start getting nasty with the foster. They could care less about the girls. Wasn't Roo OK when you had a foster female?

dingoridge
06-08-2009, 11:19 PM
Josie: Management, management, management--that's the key, unfortunately there isn't anything (that I've found anyway) except keep your attention somewhat on the guys who cause the trouble and don't let it get started. And believe me, it's not just the guys that do this, the females do it too, my two sweet females have gotten into a fight over a bone--they each had one--exactly the same kind the same size given at the same time, one decided the other's bone had to be much better and wanted to swap, unfortunately the other female didn't want to swap--quick fight ensued and mama (me) broke it up post haste with the determination that both dogs would be fur-less unless they cut it out--which they did immediately. My females have gotten into fisticuffs because one wanted to sit at my feet while the other was squeezed as close as possible to my feet and chair--one shifted and the other thought that was the opportunity to take the treasured seat on my feet--fisticuffs--again with mama making it quite clear one more word and I would literally skin both dogs--end of argument.

So, I don't see a quick, simple, take this sentence of advice and do it and everything will be ok method--it won't be. However, I have established my rule here strongly enough that when I use my "I'll kill you both" tone of voice, I'm in charge and it stops. So, again, management is the only key I know of--but it works, successfully. And I've seen it with both males and females--all mine and all fosters are quickly neutered/spayed so it's not neutered vs un-neutered or spay issues--it just dogs will be dogs, period. ACD are loyal, devoted, velcro dogs, they want the best seat in the house which is the closest to mama--or one will be accustomed to sitting on my feet and doesn't want to give up that position to another dog. As you saw when Roo wanted to keep Dusty off the bed there was a confrontation, but when you stepped in and stopped it and laid down the rules of the house, it ceased. That's mandatory around here, I don't allow fighting, period, I don't care who wants what or thinks what belongs to them or decides they are dominant and every other dog will bow and scrape--they get along or the troublemaker is banished to the crate and stays there for a long time so they can totally think it out. And I really do try to get a handle on it immediately--with the first nasty word thrown; if you let it get started then you have a dog fight to break up and they concentrate more on each other than you.

In my opinion, it's just dogs, period, one dog wants what the other has and thinks they have the moxie to take it--or one dog feels more dominant over the other and wants to exert that position. I generally feed in the same order every day, at the same location for each dog, another dog is not allowed to infringe on another's space or feed area. I give the same treats to each dog (unless in training sessions), I give toys and bones to everyone at the same time, etc. So, I try to keep things even and I allow my dogs to determine their pack order but I run the house and I am dominant in this house, period. My dogs know it and I manage my pack and my fosters, they don't manage the situation, I do. I'm very careful about introducing foster dogs into my group and have a set procedure for doing that, it's worked out well. But in day to day living, you are going to have some vocal disagreements and some that quickly lead to fisticuffs--my two totally sweet, totally calm, totally non-aggressive females have gotten into words before--it's just going to happen. I've fostered a lot of dogs and have a good sized pack myself and in my opinion, management is the issue. That's my take on it, you can either become a one dog household or you can manage the issue--I prefer to manage the issue.

And as an aside, I've fostered dogs that just don't get along, since it's a foster, I manage the two dogs, I keep them apart and don't worry about them being friends, being together in play time, etc. They are given attention apart, housed apart (crated in the same area but they have their place that the other dogs are not allowed to claim), fed apart and I don't give the opportunity for them to be at each other's throat (figuratively or literally). It may cause me more work but it's safer for the dogs, my dogs who will live here for the rest of their lives aren't challenged every time to establish their position here again, it's already established and the foster will have a good home and good care until they find their special home--again, to me, it's a management issue. And I've actually had a long term foster finally accept his place in my pack after months of wanting to challenge and being managed apart, he became one of the pack and no longer felt he had to challenge anymore, that was his decision to join up and it worked quite well. I know this isn't what you were probably looking for but I've never seen a "formula" for dealing with confrontations other than management.
J

2speckledblue
06-08-2009, 11:31 PM
Thanks Laura, although I wish there was some training I could do to solve the problem. Yes Roo was fine with Johnsie/Josie. They played and played. She could care less about "his" toys or people but she still was a fun and affectionate girl.

So I really think Dublin is not causing the trouble. When I let the dogs out of the crates now, he walked a wide, circular path around Roo to the door to go outside. That shows to me that Dublin can find a good home which he deserves because he is a wonderful boy. I don't think he will be this way with a female dog who is friendly and doesn't resource guard (which Dusty doesn't but she isn't overally friendly either). Dublin is probably reacting with fear agression when Roo starts the growling. He has never made the first move to go after Roo.

What have you done to help Rusty learn to share a little?

2speckledblue
06-08-2009, 11:43 PM
Janet,
I know I need to do better at management. I let my guard down and oh crap! I've caught Roo starting to cause a problem with Dublin a few times before and made him knock it off. Both of them should have never been in the computer room together. My bad. By the time the growling started, it was too late. Would it have been better to only banish Roo to his crate? I believe he started the fight. However, Dublin could have been staring at him from under the table too. Do you think I'm sending an incorrect message if I crate both?

dingoridge
06-08-2009, 11:52 PM
I would crate Roo if it were me. It sounds like by Dublin's behavior Roo is a tyrant (a loveable one but still a tryant) and Dublin is trying to avoid a confrontation but Roo now knows he can push and push and back Dublin down until there are words then licks passed. So, Roo would get the message from me that he will suffer for being a bully. Now if I think both dogs are at fault, then I have no problem crating them both--and when I've done that, both my dogs will be crated close together (in the same room in sight of each other and some times only a few feet apart) but one word from either of them and I'm giving them "the lecture". That stops it, period. They have come to know that when mama isn't happy NO ONE is happy. But it sounds to me like Roo is the bully and Dublin is trying to give him space and room but Roo is enjoying pushing the limits. Roo is young, he is pushing to be top dog, the boss dog--he's probably enjoying his position so I would come down on him especially when you see that Dublin really is trying to give him space. You know in the dog world and in dog language, if a dog is trying to give room and trying to avoid a confrontation and the other dog won't let him, then there is nothing to do but fight--and yes, it is a fear aggression fight--in the aggrieved dog's eyes, he has no choice except to be totally dominated and whipped every time the other dog sees him. A dog that finally gives in to that mentality is a psychologically whipped dog and his spirit is damaged--I've actually seen a dog like that, he has nothing left except last place in everything. So, a dog that has any drive or will left will have to fight if a bully dog won't give him space--it's unfair to classify that dog as the cause of the problem, he has no choice except curl up and quit. This is where we come in as owners, we don't allow a situation to have to be settled between the dogs, we set the ground rules and determine to enforce them.

When my girls got in an argument over the bone, I took the bones away and both were crated--when they came back out everything was fine and they were buds again. So, I try to get the guilty dog and if both are guilty or both weren't willing to give in, both get punished.
J

2speckledblue
06-09-2009, 12:06 AM
Yep, that's Roo...the loveable tyrant. He was the only one shrieking while in his crate too. Spoiled brat. I gotta get tougher with him.

dingoridge
06-09-2009, 12:19 AM
Yep, that's probably exactly the answer--and it's the ones that are spoiled because they are so cute and so sweet that become the loveable tryants--believe me, I've had my share--but tough love--just remember that and it makes a more pleasant household and a happier crew.
J

lauralu
06-09-2009, 12:42 AM
What have you done to help Rusty learn to share a little?

I just have been very consistent with him over time and maybe with him just getting older, he is 2 1/2 now, he has mellowed a bit. Rusty is only possesive with high value items now, like bones and brand new toys. Once the toys are chewed up he doesn't care about them. Funny that he is not possesive over tennis balls his favorite, but maybe because there is so many of them around.

If there is ANY fighting over toys between any of the dogs, I immediately take the toy and put it away. Same with me...Rusty will get possessive over me, sort of like you described Roo does. If ANY dog so much as lifts a lip or makes any sort of growl in an attempt to be possessive with my attention. I get up and walk away and ignore them for 5-10 minutes.

All that being said there are still little scuffles from time to time. I know my pack very well and I am very careful about the dogs I foster. I am not set up to keep dogs seperate for long periods of time, so whoever I foster pretty much has to get along and run with my pack. Breeds seem to make a huge difference. I have had no problems with male or female hound dogs here, hounds seem to want to just get along. With the cattle dogs and other herding / working breeds I have to be very careful, even dominant females can be bad. But like Janet said, sometimes for whatever reason dogs don't get along, just like people.

If you are fostering for a rescue can you trade out dogs with someone else? As much as I love to foster my dogs do come first and I will not let a foster dog create unbalance in my pack. It's a beautiful thing to have 5 dogs all get along.

dingoridge
06-09-2009, 01:33 AM
Breeds seem to make a huge difference. I have had no problems with male or female hound dogs here, hounds seem to want to just get along. With the cattle dogs and other herding / working breeds I have to be very careful, even dominant females can be bad. But like Janet said, sometimes for whatever reason dogs don't get along, just like people.

If you are fostering for a rescue can you trade out dogs with someone else? As much as I love to foster my dogs do come first and I will not let a foster dog create unbalance in my pack. It's a beautiful thing to have 5 dogs all get along.

So VERY true, breeds do make a huge difference. Hounds are predisposed to run in packs, they are very much packs animals (large packs), if you've ever seen a pack of beagles or fox hounds, they are all fed in the same room, all together, they live together, hunt together, travel together, everything is pack mentality to them. Not so the herding breeds--not in that kind of pack. And with the dominance, strong personality of cattle dogs, this pack mentality isn't the same as the hound groups. They do form "packs" with their house mates, especially if they like each other but it's totally different from the hound packs.

And yes, dogs like or dislike other dogs just like people, some they really like, they hardly ever have a cross word, then there are others they instantly don't like and never will--they will tolerate them but like them???? NO. And yes, if you are fostering for a rescue, you may be able to swap dogs--it's hard to do sometimes but that's a possibility. I think if you get the rules laid down, it will help a lot with the situation you have, and yes, as the dogs mature, get older they settle more, they are more tolerant sometimes and aren't the young whippersnappers charging for "place". And sometimes as time passes, they become more tolerant of each other, as I described the foster I've had--he is fitting in nicely now but not so when he first came here.

Rules are very important, however, and being consistent with house rules, being watchful and everyone tows the line will iron out a lot of difficulties. And yes, I agree with Laura, my pack--the ones who are mine and will live here for the remainder of their lives, are first place, I also care for the fosters too, but if there is a choice between who can get along and who can't, my pack takes precedent and I separate those who won't be here long and have difficulty settling in. Thankfully that situation has been few and far between thus far.
J

ACDonMyMind
06-09-2009, 08:43 AM
Oh I recognize this growling and fighting. It recently startet at my house, and I was sad about it and didnt know exactly what to do. I certainly didnt want to make things worse.
I have a very small pack, the 13 year old girl Kiri, the 6 years old Pelle and little Brix now 13 months old. All of them intact. Brix the only cattledog.
The two boys have been playing very well together in the yard, some minor differances it has been between them, ending with Pelle on top of Brix or me telling them to quit.
So all of a sudden, it seemed to me, the two of them started a more serious fight in the yard, with me right next to them. It sounded more serious then the previos times. I rushed over and made them stop, just using my voice as before. They stopped, but Brix was really pissed off so he attacked Pelle again, and I had to stop them again. After that for about a week, Brix would growl at Pelle late and early, wanted to controll where Pelle was allowed to go inside the house, to deny him to be petted by me and so on. Pelle being a soft guy really didnt want any fight so he backed away, looked the other way all to keep the peace. I did talk to Brix everytime he growled, I put him in his cage. It only helped for a short while then he was at it again. I took away his couch privilages and made a deal of him waiting while the other dogs got their treats first, like they always did. But he was still at it and finally I had enough. I caught him staring at Pelle to make him not go on the couch and I grabbed a hold on him on both sides of his neck, tipped him over and placed him on his back, he kept staring over at Pelle so I pushed his head to the other side, and then I had a real serious talk to him with him lying there. He looked very surprised at first,his eyes big as plates, then he softened, and started to wag his tail a little. So I let him go, and let him kiss me a little too. He was up, shaking it off, went to the kitchen and found a toy and was happy as a clam.

The two boys have been fine ever since. No growling or anything. I saw a look once, then he hurried to look another way and came to me and was all puppylike. I praised him for that. They are playing again as before. I notice Pelle is careful not to stare, and that is fine with me as long as he feels he can walk where he wants to in the house or outside. And he is no growling when I pet Pelle either. This is something I have not done before, to put a dog on his back like that. But at this instant it came so naturally for me so perhaps at this time it was the right thing to do. I think Brix got the message about who is in charge in my house, and he is OK with it.
I hope they will stay friends from now on.

dingoridge
06-09-2009, 10:06 AM
I caught him staring at Pelle to make him not go on the couch and I grabbed a hold on him on both sides of his neck, tipped him over and placed him on his back, he kept staring over at Pelle so I pushed his head to the other side, and then I had a real serious talk to him with him lying there. He looked very surprised at first,his eyes big as plates, then he softened, and started to wag his tail a little. So I let him go, and let him kiss me a little too. He was up, shaking it off, went to the kitchen and found a toy and was happy as a clam.

The two boys have been fine ever since. ........ And he is no growling when I pet Pelle either. This is something I have not done before, to put a dog on his back like that. But at this instant it came so naturally for me so perhaps at this time it was the right thing to do. I think Brix got the message about who is in charge in my house, and he is OK with it.
I hope they will stay friends from now on.

You have seen the first instance of "I'm in charge and this crap will stop right now, I INSIST" and it did. It's my firm conclusion that I can ask nicely and if everyone responds nicely then great. However, if I ask nicely and someone or several someones decide they want to ramp it up, so can I and they really don't want mama to ramp it up.

Now, will this fix it forever??, I doubt it!! But another lesson on who is in charge will reinforce what you have already started. Soon, it will get the message clearly across that if someone crosses the line, there is a price to pay. So much of the time I see this with new ACD owners (and I'm not saying you are new--just dealing with this situation) is they ask nicely, things don't change, they ask again, things don't change, they try all the proper things--crating, sitting to wait to go out the door, taking away couch privileges and it will help for a while but then things go downhill again and they began to think the dog is too stubborn, he is so willful they can't get control, he's aggressive and they can't fix it, etc. etc. etc. when it's really the owner doesn't have control and hasn't made it clear they will get control period. The owner thinks they have tried everything and nothing is working and they have to get rid of the dog because there is something wrong with the dog or he has turned bad. Most times there is nothing wrong with the dog except being an ACD and they have over time established their position as controller and they have the owners figured out.

Way to go on getting the invading dog's attention, that was worth more than crating for a week. I have a very dominant male ACD, thankfully he is totally devoted to me and loves me to death but he knows where that line is and he knows it's a very bad thing to cross it--otherwise, if I didn't have this control he would rule the house and no other dog would be safe here. He is the smartest ACD I've ever had, and I've had some smart ones, but that means I have to be ahead of him all the time. As it is now, he is great, I can bring fosters in and out and except for managing the situation until the initial introductory period is over, everything works out fine. I wouldn't give him up for anything, he is happy here and knows his place isn't in jeopardy so he has fit in fine with the pack. That doesn't mean he is in love with every dog but he is in control (or I am) of the situation and everything settles well.

So, good for you, and your other dog will be much better adjusted and happy to know that someone other than him can take care of things. Your house will be much more peaceful too. I will say that having intact males makes your job MUCH harder, you would have less problems if you neutered your males--I don't know if you are keeping them intact for breeding but if not, there is no reason to have the testosterone running wild and creating problems you don't need. I really see no reason for any intact dog, female or male, unless someone is a breeder--that's my personal opinion but being in rescue and seeing all the problems of keeping intact dogs, it's an easy problem to fix (no pun intended). The dogs are happier as well, they aren't driven by internal desires that cause upsets with other dogs and create in them more of a fight mode than necessary, you also don't have the medical issues of intact dogs. Obviously just my opinion but there is no dog here that is intact (unless it's a rescue and they aren't intact long).
J

ACDonMyMind
06-09-2009, 10:26 AM
I dont like to be too physical with my dogs when Icorrect them, but sometimes I do. I find it very important to try to make things go smoothly and to praise them when they are good. So that they get more praise than correction. But sometimes there is just no other way but to lay down the law and say like you said: I insist.
Brix is my first ACD, so yes I am quite new to this breed. it is a very rare breed here.
And I do like to ask nicely, but I am not a pushover, and I think my little Brix Barking is beginning to appriciate that.

dingoridge
06-09-2009, 10:54 AM
Yes, ACDs are a "unique" breed and not just because there are areas where there aren't many of them. Their intelligence, their "creativity", their drive, tenacious spirit, devotion, loyalty, determination-----well I could go on forever--but they are a different breed. They are so far from Labs and Goldens it's hard to put them in the same dog world. But I can tell you, there is nothing on earth like a good ACD, nothing, it's a privilege to be loved by an ACD and I consider it so to be living with a pack of them. I dearly love the breed, the good and bad of it, and people who don't understand them, get them and can't deal with them have missed a huge life experience--but then I'm totally prejudiced. :-)). (And I don't believe in cruelty either--cruelty and an ACD just doesn't go together, strength of character and determination however does!).
J

TexasCDLorenz
06-09-2009, 12:43 PM
There is nothing I can add to what Dingoridge has already said- I totally agree with it all. My new foster is a very young female that acted like a puppy her first 24 hrs here, but Saturday, I spent the day at a match with my own 2 dogs. When I got home, we walked in the door and Posey (foster) attacked my male Opie. This wasn't just growling- she ran from across the room and was not letting go. I had my hands full, so I yelled and Opie went belly up (he is very submissive to me) but this caused the foster to jump on him again- she probably thought he was submitting to her. I dropped what I had in my hands and grabbed her and off to the crate we went - after a little shake and a few words from me, in my evil voice. I don't think that the sex of the dog has anything to do with whether they get along or not. I have 3 females here and this little girl wants to fight the only male. I've given up trying to figure out what they are thinking- to me, it is just dogs being dogs. I'm keeping a close watch on this new one, but I don't see anything that would suggest she is unstable, like the JRT/ACD mix I put down in November. She has been friendly and playful with every human she has met- young,old,male,female, and all races- she is just bossy with other dogs. My dogs play with the obedience club dogs, but if they were to come home with us, it might be different. As for guarding anything- toy or dead mole, if they are having issues over the object, I make my loud ANK noise and say MINE! I will pick it up (even if it is gross)
I usually foster females. The male marking thing is a pet peeve, but to be honest, I've had a LOT of females that marked (mostly Rotties) IMO, dogs just have different personalities like we do. Some people are shy and prefer to not rock the boat, while some (like me:biggrin2:) tend to be bossy.:biggrin2:

autiger23
06-09-2009, 01:47 PM
Janet and Laura are all over this, but I just wanted to add two little things.


That shows to me that Dublin can find a good home which he deserves because he is a wonderful boy.

I actually wonder if he wouldn't do just as well in a home with a less dominant male, too. My boy Buck is pretty submissive with other dogs and I made an effort to get a dog that is more submissive than he when I got Scout (and she sure is which I love). Mainly, I just didn't want to have to deal with the power plays. He still tries to keep Scout from getting 'his' spot next to me on the couch, but all that consists of is him squirming in between us. Someone else might have a submissive male and be looking for another submissive male.

Anyway, it really sounds like Dublin is doing a whole lot of 'negotiating' behaviors that I'm learning about as I read this awesome book one of the folks here recommended that has pictures of all kinds of dog behaviors and explanations. From what you said, it sounds like Roo is the instigator. If Dublin is try to give him space and ignore him, etc, he's working awfully hard. Personally, if there's an issue with my two, I *do* only put the instigator in the crate.

Do you have Roo on NILIF? I kept Buck and Scout both on it for the first month after I got her. No toys were left laying around- they had to earn them, Buck with tricks, Scout with downs and stays and then they got picked back up when (supervised) play ended. They are both still on NILIF for all food, treats, getting out of the car, before throwing the ball each time, etc, just for the added benefit of giving them a job.

Also, Roo might not have resource guarding issues away form home because there aren't resources in day care that he considers 'his'. I know Scout has resource guarding over *her* balls at the park with all other dogs except Buck (because he's her pack and her alpha), but she doesn't pull that at day care. I have the Mine book but haven't been finding it too helpful myself, especially because Scout doesn't resource guard with Buck, so it's tough to train her using other people's random dogs at the park. LOL! If anyone has suggestions about that or the section of Mine that I'm missing that would help, I'd really appreciate it.

autiger23
06-09-2009, 02:20 PM
I have 3 females here and this little girl wants to fight the only male.

Hey, Cindy, I know you've spoken about Opie being very submissive to you in the past, too- what if the new girl thinks that this means he might be submissive to her if she tries hard enough? Like she sees him as an 'easy mark' and she's trying to win her place in the new pack? My girl Scout is real submissive to me and Buck will occasionally come close when she and I are having a 'talk' so I tend to push him away just to make sure he understands that she's being submissive to me- not him. Anyway, just wanted to mention it. You definitely know more about dogs than I do- I've just noticed dogs in multi-dog packs taking advantage of one dog's submissiveness to the proper (human) alpha recently and you mentioning that brought it to the forefront of my brain.

TexasCDLorenz
06-09-2009, 07:13 PM
The submissive nature of my Opie often gives mixed signals to other dogs. I will have to keep a close eye on those two- he outweighs her by 20lbs. I let him submit the JRT mix, but I regretted doing that. Little Bit was injured, Opie is not submissive to other animals. At that time, I thought Little Bit was just looking for her place in the pack, I didn't realize she had some sort of mental disorder. She simply could not control herself, but I'm pretty certain that this young female (Posey) is just bossy- I'm still going to keep an eye on her and Opie. Opie is going out of town with me for a few days. The girls will be at home with my husband- they will all be spoiled little brats when I get home! But, this time, when we walk in the door, I will be telling my fosters to get back. No more issues at the door. :thumb_yello:

mlanger
06-09-2009, 07:47 PM
The submissive nature of my Opie often gives mixed signals to other dogs. I will have to keep a close eye on those two- he outweighs her by 20lbs. I let him submit the JRT mix, but I regretted doing that. Little Bit was injured, Opie is not submissive to other animals. At that time, I thought Little Bit was just looking for her place in the pack, I didn't realize she had some sort of mental disorder. She simply could not control herself, but I'm pretty certain that this young female (Posey) is just bossy- I'm still going to keep an eye on her and Opie. Opie is going out of town with me for a few days. The girls will be at home with my husband- they will all be spoiled little brats when I get home! But, this time, when we walk in the door, I will be telling my fosters to get back. No more issues at the door. :thumb_yello:


Haha, It is just the opposite when we get home from a trail. Its the dogs that have gone to the trial that have the attitude. They saunter in the door with huge egos--WE are the good dogs, WE went to the trial, WE won ribbons. YOU guys who had to stay home are scum! WE thought you would be gone by the time WE got home. Why are YOU still here? WE should kill you NOW!!!! Thats when I usually start to roar, and slap the whole mob up to peak then I slap the peak off. After it is established that EVERYBODY is scum, peace reigns and I retire to my throne to accept suck up apologies:roll1:

dingoridge
06-09-2009, 10:23 PM
Thats when I usually start to roar, and slap the whole mob up to peak then I slap the peak off. After it is established that EVERYBODY is scum, peace reigns and I retire to my throne to accept suck up apologies:roll1:


:roll1: That's rich--an ACD mama if I ever heard one!!!!!! :naughty: Amazing how peace returns and quickly when everything's been 'splained properly----:thumb_yello:.
J